[USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report

Wed Apr 3 12:12:07 EDT 2013

For whatever its worth (which very well might be nothing), I am in a couple
other leagues (albeit head-to-head ones) that frequently witness managers
moving players from their active roster to their bench spots at the end of
a weekly matchup to secure AVG/ERA/WHIP at the expense of Runs, HR, Wins,
Ks, etc.  Under-representation in any league seems to me like a strategy
move that carries risk and that risk tends to make people comfortable with
accepting others who choose to under-represent.

I guess my point is, even if it were an oversight, I'm not so sure
under-representation should be prohibited.  Glad my temporary oversight in
forgetting to promote Juan Rivera led to this debate on the league bylaws
though!

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:06 AM, <springkerb at aol.com> wrote:

> What the roster "shall consist of" is not the same question as whether and
> how it has to be filled.  Section 1 addresses the former; Section 3
> addresses the latter.  When the constituation expressly says you can't be
> over-represented and doesn't mention under-representation at all, then
> under-representation has to be allowed.  Intent doesn't matter and a
> thousand other leagues don't matter.  We have a written rule, and it's
> clear.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Winick <jhwinick at aol.com>
> To: announce <announce at usml.net>
> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 10:46 am
> Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report
>
> Guys - just because one can create an ambiguous reading of the
> constitution doesn't mean we should do so.  It wasn't anticipated that
> someone would intentionally understaff their team.  And it certainly wasn't
> discussed and agreed that it would be allowed.  It simply wasn't
> anticipated as a potential problem.  Had it been, I'm quite confident it
> would have been addressed.  That makes it an oversight not an indication of
> intent.  If I'm wrong about this, Rich should chime in.  But I don't think
> so.
>
>  My understanding of the intent of this league and every other league I
> have ever been in is that you have to have a complete roster.
>
>  Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Adams <dadams17 at gmail.com>
> To: USML Announcements <announce at usml.net>
> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 10:38 am
> Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report
>
>  I tend to agree with Mark that, if the constitution intended to prohibit
> under-representation it should say so.  Especially since Section 4
> explicitly indicates over-representation as well as a number of other
> scenarios that require remedying; yet no mention of under-representation is
> ever discussed.  Therefore, reading 3(1) together with 3(4), I think "SHALL
> consist of the following players.." should be construed as setting forth
> the maximums for each roster spot. I'm also not terribly concerned about
> demoting players to the reserve roster to circumvent salary rules because
> the reserve roster has a maximum number of spots available.
>
>  But then again, I'm still just a law student (whose weakest subject
> admittedly is constitutional law) and not yet admitted to practice.... so I
> could be entirely wrong.  Just my 2 pennies worth of input....
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Jeffrey Winick <jhwinick at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>>
>>  I beg to differ.  Article III, Section 1 says that a team's active
>> roster SHALL consist of the following positions.  That seems 100% clear to
>> me that teams are required to have each of those slots filled.
>>
>>  Jeff
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: springkerb <springkerb at aol.com>
>>  To: announce <announce at usml.net>
>> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 10:06 am
>> Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report
>>
>>  I looked at the constitution, and I think it's 100% clear.
>> Over-representation is not allowed, but under-representation is.  Article
>> III, Section 4.  It's absolutely 100% clear.  If the answer were otherwise,
>> III(4) would also contain the words "or under-represented" (which it does
>> not). BA, ERA and WHIP are addressed by the AB and IP minimums.  One can
>> argue about whether it should work that way, but it does unless and until
>> we amend the constituation.
>>
>> Easy answer, clear as a bell, nothing left to talk about.  The
>> commissioners are empowered to interpret the constitution, but not to
>> change it on the fly, so the whole discussion is pointless.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jeffrey Winick <jwinick at harriswinick.com>
>> To: USML Announcements <announce at usml.net>
>> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 9:59 am
>> Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report
>>
>>
>>
>>  Mark,
>>
>> I agree that it is an interpretation issue.
>>
>> And I agree that FA’s can be used to fill slots, but NL players can only
>> be used in slots if they first occupied that slot while they were something
>> other than an NL player.  I think we cleared that up earlier.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>  *From:* announce-bounces at usml.net [mailto:announce-bounces at usml.net<announce-bounces at usml.net?>]
>> *On Behalf Of *springkerb at aol.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:52 AM
>> *To:* announce at usml.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report
>>
>>
>>  It's not a policy issue.  It's an interpretation issue.  To the extent
>> it's a policy issue, it would get addressed in the offseason via amendment.
>>
>> (By the way, as discussed previously, it's also permissible to fill slots
>> with FAs or NL players that were properly acquired--e.g., Valverde.  That's
>> sufficiently clear in the rules that I don't think there's anything to
>> discuss.)
>>
>>  Mark
>>
>>   -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jeff Winick <jhwinick at aol.com>
>> To: USML Announcements <announce at usml.net>
>> Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 9:03 am
>> Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report
>>  I think Jim's point is that you have to maintain the ability to fill
>> the slots whether with minor leaguers or DL players in the AL. I expect
>> that is always the case, but teams don't want to start the contracts on
>> minor leaguers.
>>
>>  That's my understanding of the rule. I'm with Jim.
>>
>>  Jeff
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Richard Robbins <rerobbins at itinker.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  So you toss in a guy on DL or a player getting no abs etc. There may be
>> instances where you can't fill a slot etc. Thats why we have minimum
>> requirements.  Would you prohibit rostering of DL guys or previously
>> actives who have been demoted?  We've never precluded those.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Jim Barrett <chicagojab at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Sorry to harp on this but I don't think empty slots are legit despite
>> minimum at bat requirements. I think all slots need to be filled. Otherwise
>> what's to stop most from not fielding that 2nd catcher or crappy MI that
>> kill your BA? Especially at end of year when minimums have already been
>> reached? If you use an injured AL player or someone sent down to minors or
>> that guy who never gets off the bench  so be it. But you need an AL
>> eligible player in the slot. Same goes for pitchers with both ERA and WHIP
>> in play.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2013, at 7:41 PM, Richard Robbins <rerobbins at itinker.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I believe Cardinal Mark has it right.
>>
>>  On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:53 PM, <springkerb at aol.com> wrote:
>> This came up a long time ago, and at the time I think we decided empty
>> slots were allowed. However, I also thought there were later amendments
>> that changed that--but I may be wrong.
>>
>> We have both AB and IP minimums.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bljansen at gmail.com
>> To: USML Announcements
>> Sent: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 11:43 am
>> Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Daily Roster Audit Compliance Report
>>   Yes. See Article X(4).
>>
>>  On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Dennis Adams <dadams17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  AFV moved Juan Rivera from its reserve roster to its Active Roster in
>> the CI slot.  Therefore, I now have 23 active and 16 reserve.
>>
>>  In regards to the rules though, I agree that there does not appear to
>> be a minimum number of players required and that the rule serves only to
>> impose a maximum.  Leaving empty spots on your active roster only prevents
>> you from accruing stats and does not provide an advantage.  I suppose the 1
>> argument is that of batting average, but I assume there is a minimum
>> number of at bats that must be met?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> announce mailing list
>>
>> announce at usml.net
>>
>> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> announce mailing list
>> announce at usml.net
>> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> announce mailing list
>> announce at usml.net
>> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>> announce mailing list
>> announce at usml.net
>> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>> announce mailing list
>> announce at usml.net
>> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> announce mailing list
>>
>> announce at usml.net
>>
>> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>
>>
>> This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered
>> safely by Mimecast. For more information please visit
>> http://www.mimecast.com
>>
>>
>> This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered
>> safely by Mimecast. For more information please visit
>> http://www.mimecast.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> announce mailing listannounce at usml.nethttp://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> announce mailing listannounce at usml.nethttp://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> announce mailing list
>> announce at usml.net
>> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> Dennis F. Adams III
> Candidate, Juris Doctor 2013
> Northwestern University School of Law
>
> _______________________________________________
> announce mailing listannounce at usml.nethttp://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>
>   _______________________________________________
> announce mailing listannounce at usml.nethttp://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> announce mailing list
> announce at usml.net
> http://lists.usml.net/mailman/listinfo/announce
>
>

-- 
Dennis F. Adams III
Candidate, Juris Doctor 2013
Northwestern University School of Law
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://usml.net/pipermail/announce_usml.net/attachments/20130403/28161cbc/attachment-0001.html>